Why Confronting The Deeper Truth Within Ourselves Sets Us Free With Angela Philip
When you confront a deeper truth within yourself, you grow far beyond where you are in this moment. Adam Quiney’s guest today is Angela Philip, founder of Queen of Possible. In this mid-week coaching session, Adam discusses with Angela how we’re blinded when we’re so against showing up in a particular way that we don’t even consider the possibility that we may be that which we do not want to become. Resulting in us being locked in a merry-go-round where we wonder why things don’t seem to change. Tune in as Adam live coaches around all things possibility, life, coaching, leadership and so much more. Don’t miss this opportunity to confront a deeper truth within yourself!
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Why Confronting The Deeper Truth Within Ourselves Sets Us Free With Angela Philip
On this week’s mid-week episode, tune in as Adam live coaches Angela Philip around all things possibility, life, coaching, leadership and so much more.
We are doing some live coaching. That coaching is with a woman named Angela. She is a radiant being full of sunlight and delightfulness. She’s also a member of The Forge so she has been deep in her work with me and Bay. This is an interesting conversation. It meanders a little bit, which you will probably notice and there are a few cool parts to pay attention to. The first one is where Angela is talking about wanting to be deep in all of this stuff and not wanting to be superficial. What I’m noticing as this conversation going on is and this is not intended to denigrate, take away or be negative in any way but the way the credit she’s giving to herself is a little bit superficial in itself.
You will read this as the conversation goes on but this is a classic example of where someone is being existed, lies and reveals itself below the words they are using. Someone might say, “I’m not superficial and I feel deep and grounded in this.” As you train your ability to listen deeply and hear what isn’t being said, you start to notice this stuff that you will see me pulling out. There is one point where I reflect, “It seems the way you are relating to that is superficial, ironically.” Ultimately, what’s happening is this unwillingness on Angela’s part to be superficial, flaky and be like the butterfly.
She can’t even consider that possibility. She’s so dead set against it because it’s not who she is. It’s the opposite of what she’s committed to and this is how we get trapped. We are against showing up a particular way but then that makes it impossible for us to see the places where we are. Consequently, we can’t do anything about them so we are left going around in a circle wondering why things don’t seem to change. Why do people keep reflecting on this stuff to me? At best, we come up with these half-baked fragile solutions of like, “I need to be okay with other people thinking that I’m superficial when I know in my heart that I’m not.”
That’s a classic example of where the way we’re showing up. We can’t see the fullness of it, other people are reflecting it to us, and we’re rejecting it like, “That’s their opinion.” That’s how we get out of having to be with and confront a deeper truth for ourselves, which would then allow us to grow far beyond where we are currently at. Check this conversation out. You will enjoy it. It’s a neat one and Angela’s delightful to spend time with. We are going to leave you with that. I hope you enjoy it.
Angela, let’s get you here. You are so glamorous in such style.
I’m glamorous with my boutique beer. I should have bought champagne. I could have had the whole bottle by myself. I have some limits. Some but not many. That’s one of them.
Is there anything else you want to share about being a leader or what led to us being in a relationship together or anything like that you would like to add in?
First of all, I love what you already said and that was the leadership training that changed my life. I was blown away by it. I have never had training like that before.
This being a leader.
In all of the coaching training and the years I have been coaching, that was phenomenal. I appreciate how we connected them. It was a no-brainer when you said you were doing The Forge. I was disappointed when you weren’t doing the intensive. I have been doing something else along the lines. It wasn’t ontological work as such. I’m studying with The Diamond Approach and Ridhwan. It’s all ontology from a real spiritual perspective. It’s my twice-a-year retreat. It was like, “That’s interesting. I’m coaching and studying.”
The Being A Leader course was suggested to me by a great friend of mine who’s worked with Steve Hardison who suggested the Prosperous Coach and Rich. It’s all of that group and that community. She said, “You have to do Being A Leader. It is the course. It’s red wine on steroids.” I loved connecting with you two, in particular. At that moment, I connected with other people as well but there was a deeper connection. It’s still there. There’s a resonance and wisdom that I appreciate.
One of the thing that was interesting about being with so many Landmark people, and this is my experience of Landmark which I hold in high regard, it provides a great service to the world because people get a taste of transformation which is hard to find elsewhere. We talk a lot about that word be and we throw it around but it’s not often found and experienced. Landmark is a weekend. The forum first is a weekend and a weekend and maybe a third weekend so you are getting a taste but it’s dipping your toe in or taking a drink and you go back to your life.
There’s not often a structure of ongoing continual support. It’s like when people work with a coach for a month and stop and work with a new coach for a month and stop. We never get forced to be with the intimacy and frankly, the content that they can grow from familiarity as we stayed with one person or stayed with that structure. I found there are a lot of amazing people there and I love them dearly. They had a lot of languages. They could almost speak ontologically but they were like a disembodied head. They would start to say things like, “I had a headache and I realized that the headache was the conversation.” It was like, “I get where you are going but sometimes a headache fucking hurts and that’s okay, too. There’s room for all of this here.”
I’ve got the same experience. It was interesting. There are similar conversations that I have had because I have not done any other Landmark work. The only time I have heard of Landmark was in Australia. In the year 2019, I don’t know how much I traveled but it was a lot to the extent that it was huge. I went to see my mom and I hadn’t seen my mom for a few years. I hadn’t seen my brother for a couple of years. I happened to be on the Gold Coast in Australia, not far from where I live and a friend of mine that I hadn’t seen since school that I reconnected with went, “You are going?” I dare to admit it. I hadn’t known how to win her out.
You didn’t know what you are getting into.
Not at all. I trusted my friend, Martine. I looked before I went, considering it and tried to find out a bit more. I didn’t know all about this huge reputation. I was blown away by the depth and the precision of all of the work that was in there. It still resonates more than a year later. That was great work. All of that to say was one person I caught up with had done the forum and said it was the most amazing work he had ever done so that even piqued my interest even more. What you said, what you were talking about before I came on resonated with me being with what is without having something else to go to, without having that, “I’m holding on to.” I’m not holding on to anything. Being there with what is what gives real access to whatever is coming next. I am no expert on it. Through the work, I have experienced that but it’s certainly not something I mastered. I get what you are saying. With the Landmark work, it’s something to keep going on. It’s constant. It’s a mountain with no top. It never stops.
Mark says, “Mike’s forum was a pivotal shift for me.” I love that. That’s the case for a lot of people and that has been my experience. If anyone’s read this book, it’s a transcript of Werner Erhard Leading the Forum, which is a fantastic thing. It’s fascinating to listen to this man and how he makes the distinctions that he was working with, it doesn’t explain it so much. It’s more on exploring the connection between his work and the philosophies of Martin Heidegger, which frankly, I find a little bit boring.
If you like that, that’s cool, too but you can get a sense of, “There’s a deeper conversation being invited,” and you hear Werner speaking, why he developed the reputation he did because it was done in the ‘70s or maybe the late early ‘80s. You can hear him calling people assholes and you can feel there’s a real, “I’ve got to slap people to wake them up,” vibe to it. We have come to a distance from that. First of all, you can download all of the course materials for being a leader. They asked you to cite them but you can go through it yourself.
The first thing you are going to notice is they are dense materials. It’s 900 slides. I’m going to tell you about how this material was delivered to Cancun. Angela knows exactly what I’m talking about and you are going to hear it and think, “Are you kidding me?” We all come into this big auditorium, they put a slide up and they have someone read the slide. We move on to the next slide and we do the same thing. We are going through 700 slides and you think that’s the worst thing you could do.
Anytime someone gets lost or doesn’t grasp a part of the side, they put up their hand and they say, “Can you say that over? I have a question about that?” First of all, most people will react to what I described. I certainly did. You may have, Angela but what’s amazing is who they are being about it, sources that and allows it to work. The second incredible thing is there was an out. It was about 150 people that only spoke Russian in the room because they wanted this work in Russia.
Those slides as they are being read were being translated into Russian so they couldn’t even read what was up on the screen in front of them. They only had a translation. They were walking through it with us too. What that did to me was blow apart this way I had of dividing people, which is these people will be able to get this because they’re smart enough and these people probably won’t and they didn’t have any of that context. The way they were relating to all of us was everyone can get this material. It’s going to take some intellectual effort on their part and we are willing to stick with them through it until they get it. From that, we’ve all got it. It was remarkable or at least that was my experience that maybe some people didn’t but I didn’t get that sense.
I’ve got that too and that’s because when there were questions because it’s true. Not only were they slides but they weren’t four bullet points like you said. It was a whole text. They read word-for-word, the ands the buts and the whole lot. I would never have thought I could have integrated but when someone had a question their depth of integration and knowledge of it was so strong. That was how it was held light as well.
It’s a great example of being in action because someone else could see that and be like, “I’ve got it.” That’s the way to provide this material, create their slide, have you sitting there, they are going to read it and it’s the worst experience in the world, which is the funny thing. All of us have experienced that. Their slides would be like, “The foundation for your leadership is what you are doing. That is to say that the actions you take blah. To put it differently, your actions are blah.” It’s like, “This point is getting hammered into my forehead but it is getting in there.” This was funny. It’s a fantastic course and it brought us together.
It did and I’m pleased it did. I made the most amazing connections.
Let’s segue from that other work out there to the work here. What do you want to put our attention on during this time together, Angela?
There’s one thing showing up for me. It’s a big part of who I am and also what I noticed is I dance around. I was talking about joy and I sent you my request. Now, I’m having a bit of a lapse of, “What did I say that I wanted to talk about?” I know that was my relationship to joy and not creativity but to joy, in particular, and now I’m having a blank as to what exactly that was.
Do you want me to read it to you?
I would love you too.
I asked what would you like to be coached around and you said, “How to stand in joy and creativity powerfully without minimizing them. How do I position myself as a powerful, joyful leader and own that possibility, then create results with it?” Is that what is there for us to take a look at?
That’s it. If it’s not, something else could come up.
There are two how-tos in that. How to stand in joy and creativity powerfully without minimizing them is the first one. The second one is, how do I position myself as a powerful, joyful leader and own that possibility, then create results with it. Those may be the same thing but which of those two paths do we begin down?
The first one because the first leads into the second anyway.
Let’s start here. What’s important about standing in joy and creativity without minimizing them?
Joy and creativity are essential. They are essential parts of who we are. If I go to them without minimizing them in parts, it’s a natural part of me. It’s a natural part of most humans. All humans have joy and creativity. It’s who we are. I have allowed it to be stomped on in certain moments at certain times. I have minimized and made it wrong. I made it unsubstantial. There are moments after years in France where I’m not sure. I will give you context. If you are joyful and optimistic, you don’t understand life. You don’t have a grip on reality.
The way I have experienced it and the way I have experienced comments from certain people and contexts in work or whatever is, “We can’t count on you then. You are all joyful. You don’t get it. There’s a real-life to be led.” What I know is that joy is an essential part of who we are. When we are joyful and creative, we are more resilient and we have more capacity. There are more power in joy. I know there something to think and feel. When I’m in my joy, I feel powerful and I managed to slip back into a belief that I shouldn’t be that way. There’s something childish, not childlike, about joy, which you don’t get. You are not in the real world.
Arlene is sharing that she can resonate with what you are sharing. She was saying that she minimizes her joy in creativity so others around her don’t feel small. Joyful, optimistic and it sounds like there’s a real genuine desire to bring more of that into your life and come from that place more often. That’s part of what I’m hearing you share. Is that accurate?
Yeah. I am told that that is who I am all the time. In certain moments and certain contexts, that has been made wrong. In that case, contracted. I remember once when I was young compared to now. At the beginning of my career when I was a conference organizer, I noticed that in terms of optimism, maybe not so much joy, I was trying to work with a particular person who was my supervisor. Whatever I did wasn’t right and I’m being optimistic. I’m coming back. I’ve got this and I’m coming back. I’m finding solutions and I know we are not quite on joy but there’s still this optimism and I finally went to the managing director and I said, “I’m not made for this job.”
This is three months later. I said, “I can’t. Whatever I do is wrong.” There are all of this optimism in how I’m being. What she said struck me and this is showing up in other times as well. She was, “There’s nothing wrong with you. We put you with this person because you seemed the most resilient.” No one else has stayed with that person for more than two weeks. There’s also me degrading. The optimism part maybe is not the best thing after all. I should be more realistic and stop finding what’s possible and stop finding ways because there are some times where other people would say, “You are not realistic.”
What is important for me to know about that story that you shared?
In that moment of being the optimist, my experience was that I wasn’t present enough to reality. What’s happened with the other moments when it’s like, “You are too childish and you don’t have a grip on reality.” It resonates. It’s like, “Maybe they are right because I didn’t see that and it was painful.” It’s repeated. There’s almost a limit when resilience isn’t resilience anymore. It’s like obstinately finding a positive fight, finding possibility where maybe there isn’t any.
Let’s calibrate. I get the content that we are taking on. What do you want to leave with from this conversation?
I want to leave with a powerful relationship to my joy.
How will we know that we have arrived at a powerful relationship to your joy? Do you have a metric for that?
Possibly, I will write about it for the next ten days on every social media platform, which I have already started doing and owning again. How else will I know? I will go and crack open a bottle of champagne. I’m kidding. What would be my metric? It’s to stand powerfully in my joy.
There’s a difference in what you said. What I heard you say is you want to leave here with a powerful relationship to your joy. Are they the same thing?
Yeah. A part of it is no more apology. Joy is the way that’s one thing. When I write about it, I don’t think about it and write it as if it’s a nice possibility. I feel it when I write it. I write what I feel about what I feel and what I’m experiencing at the moment. What I would like is for that experience to be anchored and what that would look like is me calling bullshit on other people when they say, “You are this and you are that. What do you think you are like?” It’s not having the feeling of contraction that they are right. I don’t know how I would say that as a metric for you. It would be something that I notice about what I’m feeling about it.
It’s a metric for you, too to be clear. Let’s try this. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being this is the most powerful relationship I could have enjoyed and we don’t even know what that necessarily looks like. The relationship you would rate ten. Some subjective rating and one being, “This could not be more disempowered, this relationship I currently have to joy.” Where are you at in terms of your relationship to joy?
I reckon that I’m between 7 and 8.
That sounds pretty good.
I like it to be at ten. I would like to get ten because it’s important.
That was interesting. How come you specified that? You said, “I would like to be at ten because it’s important.”
That’s what I have to bring to the world and that’s why it’s important.
Let me speak to everyone else so they can be in on what I noticed. For everyone, part of what we are doing as coaches are listening to what’s showing up in the space as it’s showing up in the space. That includes listening to ourselves. Over here, I’m assuming that Angela is bringing stuff that’s important so it was curious to me when she said, “I would like to be a ten,” and she justified why she wanted to be a ten because she felt it was important. I have no idea what that means. It struck me in that moment. I was like, “That’s interesting. I assumed this would be important.” There’s a bit of incongruity or something. I’m curious about that. Was that filler or was there a reason that you put that in there?
I would like to tell you that that’s filler and that’s my edge at the moment. I’m still staying because it’s important, rather than being it.
That part of your relationship to joy is showing up even in that statement.
Part of showing up is me having that edge of, really and yet, fundamentally, I know it is. It’s not fundamental doubt. It’s an attachment, maybe the experience. I’m not quite sure. My deepest experience of joy is so powerful. When I say it’s as powerful as with a sword. It’s not this nice fluffy thing. When I say cutting, it’s not as in destroying but it’s that powerful. That’s the importance of it. Also, I feel this is necessary. When people are connected with that and you are connected with your joy, you have so much more power. I feel like diluting it.
When you describe this, it almost occurs you are trying to convince yourself. I’m not saying that I’m right about that. That’s how it occurs to me. I’m curious, how that lands with you.
What I feel and experience is real. What comes from that is almost as if I need to convince other people of that but I need to convince myself.
Are you trying to convince someone at this moment?
Am I chatting with someone at this moment? No. That’s how deeply important this is to me. That’s more it. I don’t need to convince you but that’s the intensity of the feeling of the importance.
Let’s look at what your relationship to this part of you is. There’s this part of you that you say is joy and how do you relate to that?
When I’m on my own, it’s there and relatively frequent. It’s not all the time, there are moments of sadness in all the rest of it but it’s part of who I am. What I notice is that I will adjust it to fit the context I’m in or the people I’m with. I won’t gouge my eyes out. I will do it later.
Can I share what that is about?
Angela does this funny thing. The Forge happens from 10:00 to 12:00 and we are at the middle point. She takes her hands and does this. Presumably, because it’s an eyeball relaxation technique, we are halfway through these calls and usually, The Forge goes quite deep and can be confronting. It always looks like Angela is at the point where she’s trying to gouge her eyeballs out. That’s what she was referencing. What I heard you share when I asked that question was what you do? What I’m curious is about your relationship to the joy that would then have you do that? Do you understand that distinction that I have done?
Yes. I like it when I keep it safe.
Let me give you an example over here, so you can see it. What do I do? I connect with people openly and freely, except when I see people that look scary and I hold myself back. I’m describing the actions I take and the stuff I do. That’s where most of your answer around joy has been. What I’m asking is for your relationship to joy. My connection relationship would be that it’s great around certain people but around other people connection is unsafe and something I have to manage. Can you see the difference between the two answers when I invite you to answer in terms of what’s the relationship?
It’s practically similar. It’s more or less the same. It’s around most people. I don’t even think about it, in fact.
Think about it right now.
My relationship with it isn’t natural. When I say my relationship, I don’t think about it. It’s so natural that it’s there and around some people, it’s unsafe. In that context and those people, I have to present and pack it in a certain way so it’s acceptable. I have to fit it into a box and put certain words on it.
I will be shut down for being having no substance.
Unreliable, a little bit.
Anything else you can distinguish?
What I’m getting from this is that I know I’m projecting an image out onto them as well. What I’m getting is I will receive some form of rejection.
It’s because it’s too good to be true. You can’t be like that. The world is not like that. I get sent into, “Maybe they are right or there’s something I haven’t seen.”
There’s a bypass or head in the clouds nature to it.
Head on the clouds and no feet on the ground. Disneyland, you don’t live in the real world. You can’t work with these people who work in real-time, huge problems like world problems because you’ve got no substance. That’s what I’m thinking about me, I’ve got no substance.
It’s acceptable most of the time or even good. You can fill in the sometimes with whatever the circumstances are that dictates that sometimes, certain people, tasks, situation, whatever. Sometimes it’s unprofessional, unreliable, lacking in substance, too good to be true, bypass, Disneyland, everything is perfect. What else do you hold to be true?
Wrong was the first thing that came up after that.
In what flavor of wrong? How is it wrong?
It’s wrong for the context. It’s bad wrong.
That’s another version of wrong. What flavor of wrong?
I was going to say not subtle enough but that’s not true. There are all sorts of things that can be not subtle enough. It’s inappropriate wrong. It’s out of place, don’t get it wrong.
Anything else you can see before we move on?
Not right now.
Mark is sharing, “Thank you both for the gift of your transparency and for allowing us to witness the process.” Thank you, Angela, for distinguishing this. It is challenging to distinguish our relationship from something because our life is a function of our response to that relationship. We are looking at the water you swim in a little bit, which is challenging to see. Given that there are times when joy is acceptable and then there are also times when it’s unprofessional, unreliable, lacking in substance, too good to be true, bypass, Disneyland, inappropriate and out of place. What do you do to accommodate, overcome, compensate for or mitigate for all of those things?
I want to add something in there as well. There is a context. When somebody is upset, it’s not that I’m walking in their joy. I’m talking about a relatively neutral situation where joy can be around. I know that might sound that I’m mitigating against something already but there is room for all emotions. It’s not about being joyful all the time. It’s being joyful in general, having joy, owning joy, being joy. For me, this is what this is all about. What do I do to mitigate? I shut it off.
When you shut it off, what shows up?
I want to see a certain rigidity but other things show up. Rigid like hard. Logical, I go straight up into my head.
You are smart.
You are welcome. Imagine that you can hang out up there. There are a lot that can be accomplished.
Jon is asking if I can share where we are in the coaching arc. That’s a great question, Jon. Thank you for requesting that. Where we are is clear on what Angela wants to leave with. What we are not yet clear on is coaching as four components. Where is someone? Where do they want to be? What’s the gap between those two? What’s in the way of being here instead of there? We, coach, to close that gap. We are clear on what Angela wants, which is a different and more empowered relationship to her joy. What we don’t yet have is, at least fully formed, the existing relationship she has to her joy. What we are drawing out is getting clear like, “How does it look? How does that currently exist for Angela?”
Her relationship to it will be a function of the stories, the truths, the beliefs she has about it, both internal as well as projected onto other people. The action she takes as a result of those beliefs and then what that leaves her with gives us the full picture of where she’s at. We are getting clear on that. I don’t even know if we will move to move her forward. Before we can move her forward, we have to be clear on how it currently is. That’s where we are at this point. Angela, from these truths about joy, you shut it off, you get rigid, you get hyper-logical and you intellectualize. What else can you see you do there?
I don’t go deep in anything. I stay on the surface.
What does that deal with? How does that solve something?
It means I don’t have to feel any form of rejection. It’s like a twisted way of not making myself wrong because I already am going into that. It’s a way of not feeling it. It’s a way of fitting in. I fit in as well. It means that means I passed.
What’s your version of fitting in? Some people might be like, “I’m going to dumb myself down to fit in.” I’m imagining that there’s a specific version of fitting in for you that relates to joy.
I will go straight to reality. I will collude with someone’s reality. It’s interesting because I’m confused. I’m collapsing joy and optimism. I can walk in my garden and be a joy for nothing and still have ups and downs financially and still have to deal with it and still have sick children and everything and be joy. What I will do is I will shut that down. I will be with everything else that’s not right, for example, with other people, I did it so I don’t bother anybody.
I’m curious if you do anything then in response to that. You shut down this part of yourself for a long time. Is there ever a point where you are like, “Fuck this.” Where you then respond to the impact of the strategy you were running?
Hell yeah. I’m like, “Whatever feels like. Everyone, I want champagne.” Let’s celebrate life.
Interestingly, you asked that. I’m back into what I loved with The Forge. The work on this with The Forge hasn’t been directly on this but it’s part of it. It’s almost making celebrations sacred. I’m collapsing again, assimilating celebration and joy but it’s coming back to celebrate because it’s such a beautiful thing to do. When I’m not in that beauty of celebration, it will be like, “Fuck it. I will have a bottle of champagne anyway because life is life.” It has a rebelliousness to it and not the real joy that’s in it. It’s like a child sneaking out and taking his parent’s alcohol. I’m having fun but I’m not meant to. I remember being at a party with my friends when I was thirteen. My friends were drinking their parent’s alcohol and filling the bottle with water afterward. They were having fun but they weren’t allowed to. They had to sneak it. It was like that. It’s like, “Come on in. Let’s all have it.” Celebrate with sacredness.
One, the story about joy is it’s okay in these places but over here, this is how it is. From there, two things tend to happen. One is you shut it off, you get rigid and logical. The other is almost like an overcompensation in the other direction where you are like, “Fuck it. Life is life. YOLO. Let’s do it,” etc. Any other stuff that we are missing inside of all of this?
I’m not sure if something is missing but what I’m coming up with is that I’m noticing the way I’m speaking about joy as if it’s loud and it’s not always. It can be quiet. I even wrote about it and I almost forgot it. Running through the forest and quietly noticing the leaves were unfolding and that is a joy as well, the deep awareness of what is in the moment.
It sounds like you are empowered around joy in that area.
Yes, when I’m on my own. To me, that is also sensitive. I wrote about it. I don’t think I have written about it as joy before ever. I shared it with my children. We used to drive them through the forest to school and you see winter and I notice slowly the leaves I’m unfolding. You see the green arriving bit by bit.
What is important about this?
What’s important about that is that quiet sense of joy and being in the moment is something I don’t share often either. I keep it safe. It’s not for everybody.
That would be consistent. What I’m getting you to describe is if joy is part of who you are, there are places in life for which you are expressed like that. You don’t have a story. This is the thing about a hermit, going and sitting in a cave, you’ve got to be with yourself but there’s no rebound for who you are being, so you can be whoever you want. Therefore, I can be myself. Finally, I can make the kind of jokes I want to make. I’m getting that you can go into the forest. That’s an example where, by yourself, you are able to express joy because it doesn’t impinge with your current relationship to joy.
There’s nothing wrong with that. I want to be clear. It’s awesome that that’s available to you. I want to invite us to put our attention more on the places where your relationship to joy has you disempowered. Otherwise, it’s like, “Go spend all your time in the forest, which would be awesome except then you are not going to have the impact you want to have in the world because to have an impact, we have to interact with other humans.” That means you are going to need to interact with the humans for which this relationship to joy does impinge. Does that make sense?
Yes. What I recognize is what I was expressing before and at this moment is that distinguishing. By the way, the YOLO, “Let’s have the champagne,” is the side that I will bring. It’s the quiet side, which is an overexpression. That’s as same as the light. With those people, I’m not going there with that. They will stomp on it.
Check my feet on this one. I don’t want to be right about it. I want to make sure I’m getting what you are saying. It sounds like you are distinguishing that there’s this YOLO part but there’s also this deeper, softer part of the joy and you don’t share that either. The part of the joy that we could argue might almost not be childish or whatever. It’s like the joy that comes to us when we are meditating, the joy that comes when I’m allowing myself to feel real grief or maybe the joy of sitting in the rain as it lands. That joy, I’m getting you also hide that.
What are you noticing as we explore this?
It’s sad to find that. That’s what I’m noticing. I’m noticing my adventurous side. It’s like, “Why are you hiding this? You are 51 years old. Don’t hide it.”
As we look at this, there’s a part of you that’s like, “Stop doing it.”
Anything else you are noticing either showing up as we look at this? In what we have distinguished, anything else you notice about it?
There’s too much story in it. What I’m noticing is that there’s a tiredness to it. There’s a truth in it but there’s a broken record truth. It’s like, “Really?” Without judgment, there’s a feeling of letting go of it. It’s a truth and it’s a story at the same time. I’ve got the question of what might happen but that’s not even the question. It’s letting go.
That would be awesome. Those clothes that people send us that are like, “Let that shit go.” We would be like, “Sweet. I can’t believe I’ve finally got the pillow. Now I’m free of all the patterns.” Angela, this isn’t a criticism. I’m present to a lack of reverence for your patterning and what led you here. It’s interesting to me because part of what I’m getting you to talk about is there’s a superficiality that you are afraid people relate to joy as. There’s a superficiality which you create, “Fuck it. Life is life. Let’s drink,” that thing.
The way you are relating to this whole structure is a little bit almost superficial. I’m not calling you superficial but it’s almost like you are holding it like, “I should let that go.” As opposed to like, “Over here, there are a lot of reverence I have for this whole structure and how consistent it all is and how it makes so much sense.” Can you see what I’m pointing to? I want you to check-in as opposed to giving me the answer you want that would make me feel good or whatever.
What I can feel is tiredness inside. That’s it. The superficiality of letting go, I get you but it doesn’t feel like that. It doesn’t feel like some advice I’m giving myself of letting go, which sounds logical. Distinguishing all of that with you, noticing the superficiality of it, honing on and trying to hide it or making it into something and all of that takes a lot of energy. That’s where letting goes is coming from. That’s letting go. It’s not so much like, “Now you know it. Now you know that’s all you have to do.”
What I distinguish and see is how it has been a great protection for a whole lot of reasons, for everything, all through my life. Particularly what I’m noticing in results are coming up is the fully sensitive part even more than the bright part. I’m thinking of myself back when I was in my twenties wearing Dalmatian shirts and all sorts of stuff. It’s the deeper sensitive part, which is not so much let go but maybe let it show.
What would you have to be willing to confront if you stopped doing this stuff or be confronted by? Before you answer that question, I will let you sit in it. I’m going to speak to give everyone the arc of where we are. Now I’m starting to look with Angela at what’s in the way. I would assert what showed up for Angela. For most of us, we see the existing relationship and the patterns. We are more present to what it’s costing us always. Usually, by the time we get into a coaching conversation and we were like, “I want to be there. Fuck it. I should get there.” There’s a reason Angela isn’t there. It’s not that she didn’t see this. It’s that there’s a payoff to this.
There is something for which this provides a great deal of safety, support, and striving. This is what I mean when I’m talking about having reverence for it. It’s like seeing a tree with a gnarled burl. If we were a reverend, we would be like, “That’s ugly. The tree shouldn’t have done that.” If we can hold it with reverence, we would be like, “There’s a reason that burl got created on that tree. I wonder what was that about? How did it serve the tree to do that?” That’s where I’m looking with Angela. As we explore that, it’s also going to tell us what’s in the way of her creating this relationship that she wants to create. If you were to take that on and let it show, let it go, what would you have to be willing to be confronted by or to confront?
Would you think to sign it after if I tell you?
No. That’s the wrong part of my marriage. You need to talk to the other one in my marriage.
Lucky, I love your wife. I will ask her.
She would be more than happy to.
What will I have to confront? I will have to confront the idea that I’m not going to be taken seriously first of all. The people I enjoy and love working with, I will have to confront that fear of them or the idea that they will reject this.
How come? What about letting this show means you will have to confront that idea?
What I’m projecting is there will be a rejection. I will have to sit with the possibility of rejection.
Why would they reject you?
I might be coming back and going around in circles but that would be inappropriate. I want to say the word weak but it’s not weak. That’s not quite the right word. I would be disconnected from reality, fluffy.
You will have to be willing to be confronted with this notion, this idea that they will think you are fluffy, inappropriate or weak.
That’s nice. That’s sweet. They are my cynical cheerleaders puffing up now. What I get is it’s not them. It’s whatever internalized idea I have and the fact that I’m going to have to sit with it.
At the start of this conversation, it was like, “I need to stop worrying about what they think.” Those where we began a little bit and it was like, “I need to let the joy out there.” Do I have that right?
You are right. I’ve forgotten about that.
That’s okay. That’s what I’m here for. I’m not even joking. I’m holding this for us so that you can be in the moment. That is how we envision the breakthrough. It’s like, “I will stop caring about what other people think.” The next layer would be, “It’s okay for them to think that they are entitled to think what they think. I’m going to embody what I’m going to embody.” What would be the real edge for you to be with if you were to practice letting your joy out?
I need to sit with a fear of it. It’s not letting them think what they think because that’s already what I do. It would be holding the space for that while I am what I am anyway.
What is being what you are?
As I started writing every day recognizing how joyful it is to watch the leaves on the trees, hold that as something sacred to people that is useful and more humans need to be in contact with. We would change the world if that was like that. It’s not easy because I still had to push publish but it’s still easy in the sense that I was behind a screen and I was pushing publish and not that I was sitting on a conversation, which I’m having with you.
What’s the worst thing people can reflect on you when you post that?
They didn’t, by the way. I’ve got completely the opposite. What they could reflect is, “What the fuck are you saying? You are completely disconnected from the real world. This means nothing in what I’m doing in business. This means nothing when we are looking at how to solve the world’s problems. That’s nice. We will do that on the weekend when we have time but we are all doing the real work.”
What would you call someone who gets that reflection from your judgy self?
A flaky idiot who’s disconnected from reality.
Flaky, idiot, disconnected and superficial.
Not so much with the disconnected from reality. Not someone who’s connected with the trees but more like a tree-hugger.
Here’s what I’m curious about, Angela. It occurs to me what you would have to be willing to be with is that you are superficial and flaky. These things exist as ideas that are either something you are convincing yourself you are not or something you are putting onto someone else and then saying, “That’s their opinion or that’s my fear.” I want to be clear that I’m not saying who you are as a human being is superficial or flaky. What I noticed is that there’s no space in you for that possibility.
It’s too superficial. Be with what that is. Is that where you are saying?
Kind of, except there’s a way you could then do an end-run around that. It felt neat and clean what you did there. What I’m present to is to avoid the possibility of being perceived as superficial, flaky, and all of this stuff, you have created a whole world of stuff to do. It’s quite remarkable and brilliant. You have learned to identify certain people and certain situations where that’s especially risky or not acceptable and then shut it off, get rigid, hype a lot. It’s like, “No fucking way am I going to be superficial here.” There are other places where you have learned to be okay with the superficiality but superficially, “YOLO. Let’s drink more champagne.” Are you following me so far?
Yes. I’m wondering if it’s not being deep though than superficial in one space. It’s interesting. There are two and not one. The depth is almost harder than the superficiality.
Maybe but I noticed that I was inviting you to look in a particular direction and we have shifted. To me, at least, that’s a good indication that like, “Maybe there’s something for Angela to sit in.”
I’ve got it. I can feel the resistance to superficiality.
Here’s the news. You are superficial, flaky, unreliable, and without substance because you are human like me and like everyone else. The challenge here that I see for you based on what we have pulled out and you don’t have to take this on as true but I would invite you to put it on like you are trying on an outfit and wear it for the next couple of weeks rather than, “Do I agree with this or disagree with it?” Acquiesce to it. There’s no breakthrough in that or disagree with it and set it aside, “That’s cool that Adam thinks that.” I’m inviting you to try this on and test it in your life. Are you with me?
Yep, got it.
It’s because you are dead set against ever being those things, it makes it hard for you to see the places where you are. You are in an act of resistance to them. It’s like holding a beach ball under the water. What that does is that it has you simultaneously kill your joy when that’s scary that it might be perceived that way and then retreat into it. To your point, the opposite is the same. There are places where the level of depth that you have available is like, “No. Fuck it. YOLO,” and all of that stuff. What are you getting in what I’m saying?
I’m getting a certain amount of wisdom in what you are saying. It reminds me of our conversation that we also had on allowing myself to be foolish and not play the fool.
That is a brilliant distinction, Angela. Be the fool rather than play the fool. I love that. How could you practice that?
With respect to superficial, that’s an interesting one. The fool was obvious because I can hear the voices, which are, “You look stupid with that.” I then will be stupid. I will play on that and make myself stupid. This is who I am and I will work with that. It’s the same. What occurred to me is my internal voice is like, “You are this and that. You are superficial.” It’s then being with it as that’s happening and not trying to get away from it. Whatever situation, go through it and be with it. Being with it and then going through it. Rather than trying to get away from it, make it something else and acceptable. It will be a challenge because it does scream inside. It’s excruciating.
What I would suggest is to look for the places where you are quashing your joy, practice sharing from there and be open to all of the feedback that comes. The thing is as you practice sharing your joy, there are going to be places and times when it’s superficial and disconnected. You are going to be like, “Look at this leaf.” People will be like, “We are burying our dog.” It’s something where they are like, “Come over here with us.” That is an opportunity. Practice sharing the joy but then also practice getting the impact it’s having so that you can start to notice, “Shit, there are places where I get a little superficial and there’s a safety in that.” Retreat up into joy, the joyful bypass, like I can retreat up into transcendence, “It’s okay.” “Fuck you, Adam. Get down here with us.” This is where it is for us to be. Do you have to practice that way, too?
Yes. I see it. It’s going to be a challenge to practice it but I see it.
Seeing it is the Booby prize. Not to take that away from you but the practice is to go and discover it. If you already know where it is, there’s nothing new there. Go and find the places where you don’t yet know where this is. Go practice being 1% more expressed and then letting people give you that feedback. If you notice that feedback lands that way, that’s the opportunity. That’s that compass needle being like, “Right here. We are on it.”
Can I ask a question?
Yes, and then we will wind down.
It’s interesting because strangely enough when I’m burying my dog, it was at a funeral though. It happened in the middle of the mountains. That situation, weirdly, I can be with it and I expressed it.
What’s the question?
I get my feeling about superficiality and the resistance to it but it doesn’t seem to fit with certain situations where it wouldn’t necessarily be inappropriate unless I made it inappropriate. A funeral is an easy place for it to see it being inappropriate.
What I’m present to is you thinking about this and trying to figure it out, which is going to get in the way of you discovering this. Discovery is far edgier. In the discovery of this, you are going to go out there and you are going to get feedback from people even if the feedback you get is turning away from you. That’s the feedback you don’t want to receive but it’s also the feedback that’s going to cause and allow your transformation because that’s like, “Fuck. This moment is telling me what I brought didn’t serve the moment and the art I’m committed to creating.” I would invite you to be like, “That’s me trying to figure it out so I can get the strategy and instead I’m going to go and discover it courageously and maybe bash my ship on some rocks.”
What I’m getting is what is the impact I want in each moment.
I will say it one more time.
I’m figuring it out. I’ve got it.
Look for the places where you are calling your joy and where you are putting it down, practice expressing it and receive the feedback. That’s the whole practice. Anything that happens outside of that is probably your head trying to get ahold of this and that.
That’s good. I will be with it, express it and see what happens. Do I come back and tell you?
I would love that. Would you share that with me?
I want to check in and see is there anything as we come out of this that you are present to that you want to share about this conversation and where it went? Anything like that?
I didn’t know where I thought it would go but it didn’t go where I thought it would go. I’m left with a sense of curiosity and exploration. That’s what is there for me.
What I will share not just for you but also for our audience is, at the start, I’m not modeling the best coaching at this moment? At the start, I asked Angela, “What’s the metric. Where do we want to arrive in terms of relationship?” We haven’t got there because we have been looking at the impact of where she is. My experience through this is we started to look at what was in the way and then Angela wanted to jump straight to where she wanted to get. It’s like, “I should let this go. I’m tired of this.” It’s like, “No. Before we can leave a place, we have to be there.”
With more time and a little more consciousness of the amount of time we have, I would be checking with Angela to make sure she’s okay with that so that I’m letting her lead us. Angela, it doesn’t seem to me like we are going to get clear on that new relationship. It seems that, first, we’ve got to get clear on this one. Would you like to stay here or do you want to go somewhere else and let her be the one to guide us? I didn’t do that here. I want to speak about that so it’s not like, “We asked that question,” and then we say, “Fuck it. We are going to drive in and go wherever we go.” That’s something I have had in the back of my mind. I would love to acknowledge you to finish up. Would that be okay, Angela?
I would love you to acknowledge me. You are the king of acknowledgment.
Thank you for that acknowledgment. First of all, I’m present to your brilliance and your heart. I’m yearning for a real desire for the depth that you are and for the world to experience the depth that is available in joy. The image that comes to mind and has been coming to mind as we have been in this conversation is you, in the rain, weeping. That being an expression of your joy as much as anything else, that is a part of the joy, too. For me, people with a lot of access to joy are people that have access to the entire full range of human expression, “Lucky you. I’m sad. I’m angry.” I’m present to how big your range is and how much you care, how much you desire to swim in those depths yourself and to be an invitation for other people to do so.
I acknowledge you for the trust and your willingness to notice the resistance and practice hearing me past that. As a fellow brilliant person, I know that’s not easy at all. I would much rather be like, “Well.” I feel you actively doing that hard work and energetically setting that piece down. It’s like, “I’m going to listen at this moment.” It’s beautiful work. You have done such a service to the people watching, too. Denise Cannon said, “I saw you here and thought to pop in to see your beautiful light.” Jon said, “This was super insightful for me. Thank you for your vulnerability.” Natasha said, “I love you, Angela. Thanks for allowing us to witness.” As you do that heavy lifting, you are doing work for all of us. It’s beautiful. Thank you.
Coaching is such an amazing service to the world. Thank you, Adam, as well. That’s why I’m privileged to be on here with you.
Anything you want to share about what you are up to, where people can find you, something they should check out about you?
Come and find me on Facebook and Instagram. Come onto my site and read the blog. I’ve got lots to say and lots to share. You can find me at Queen Of Possible, which is slowly becoming Wild Spirit Leadership. Being here with you, Adam, what I want people to know in the world that coaching is what brings you closer to yourself. The closer you get to yourself, the more possibility there is and the deeper and the more connected world we create. That’s what I would love to share. I feel privileged to have been with you in your presence and allowing a process to happen that I would like more people to experience, whether it be with you, me or anyone because it’s precious.
They are catching the Queen Of Possible now and there will be a transition.
There will be.
Ange is in The Forge with us. We are in a conversation about that. Angela is a measure of someone in the work, doing the work and diving in. If you think this conversation might have been confronting, she’s going deeper in other places. We are enrolling for the next iteration of The Forge. If you are interested in that and if you think you might want to start to dive into this level of depth or want to support other people this way, reach out to me for a conversation. I’m sure Ange would be open to having a conversation with you if you want to know about her experience.
I would recommend it. It’s valuable. It has increased the depth and the range of my coaching immeasurably. Any coaches out there who want to do that, I suggest it.
Thanks for saying that. The last thing I’ll share and plug in is what is going to be the last iteration of the Creating Clients Course. It’s a ten-week course and that’s if you are a coach and you hate sales. You hate all of this niche and making funnels and all that. What this course will teach you is you are right to hate it. That stuff sucks. It’s not like it sucks and it shouldn’t be there but the reason it sucks is that it flips everything upside down. If this is the pyramid for creating relationships, building foundation, deepening intimacy, serving people and all of that, most of that other work flips upside down and drives hard towards selling. That’s why it’s miserable for us. We don’t enjoy doing that because it’s not natural and innate to who we are as humans.
What we do is we flip that pyramid upside down and we help you build a foundation so that you can create a beautiful experience of being with people, connecting with them, deepening relationships with them and serving them. From there, that top part of the pyramid tends to take care of itself. It’s not that there’s not stuff for you to learn. It’s that it becomes so much easier because you are in the practice of building relationships with people and that’s way more fun. It’s the last iteration I’m going to run for a while. It’s a low-cost point of $1,000. It’s EverGrowthCoaching.com/the-forge. If you are curious about the Client Creation course, AdamQuiney.com/clientcreation. Final words, Angela?
Thank you. We will see you all next episode.
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About Angela Philip
Powerful transformation. Yours. Mine. And the world’s. That’s my mission. I believe there is no power in a commitment to compromise. I play all out and am a stand for you to RISE and do the same. Never settle. You create, therefore you are. And you become who you decide to create. No exceptions.
My whole life is a daring adventure or nothing and I believe that when we live life deeply from the inside out, and unapologetically be who we are, life always rises up to meet us. This is what is reflected back to me every day by my clients, who boldly create new possibility – again and again.
I live what I coach, deepening my connection with heart to create and lead, making what seems impossible, possible. How? Through an unwavering commitment to the ongoing deepening and refinement of my own awareness, integrity, creativity & courage. Having zero tolerance for mediocrity given by excuses and disempowering past stories also comes in handy.
My prior experience with UNESCO cemented my passion for the advancement of women’s leadership. I have continued working with humanitarian organisations while developing my skill in leadership coaching and training, ontology, meditation and physical strength, all with the goal to help women own and embody their full leadership power. I will not stop until we have 50% women’s representation in leadership positions globally – unless Life has other ideas.
In our work, my clients reconnect with their creative energy, and accomplish what’s really important to them with greater power, joy and ease than they ever thought possible.
Join other wild spirit leaders to create the next level of your leadership and more deeply impact the world, starting with yourself.
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